Metaphysical Instruction from 'Yada Di Shi'ite' - 'The Inner Circle' Q&A Transcript Mystic Magazine 1955

Photo from cover of Mystic Magazine #8 (February 1955): 

"San Diego Medium Mark Probert In Trance

Another Seance In This Issue!"
 

The first article about Mark Probert to appear in Mystic Magazine was "Mark Probert, the Famous Medium: How I Proved His Ability" by Roger Graham.  That March 1954 edition article affirms how correct and detailed health information was provided to the author when he attended a trance session of Mark Probert, though whom spoke 'Dr. Luntz' of 'the Inner Circle.'  The word 'channeler' was not popular during this epoch and Roger offered his eyewitness testimonial of 'the Inner Circle' being "a band of discarnate spirits working to help anyone who wishes to listen."

Then the August 1954 edition presented a transcript of a Mark Probert 'seance circle' and an introductory note mentioned: "These seances, recorded on tape while Mark Probert is in trance, are transcribed just as spoken.  Unfortunately the printed word cannot convey the dramatic impact of the recorded tape, which is awesome and thrilling.  For this first seance, the questions were asked by your editor [Ray Palmer].  In future seances, you, the reader, will ask the questions."  Instructions for sending questions were offered with the comment: "If your questions qualifies, it will be answered."

A new question and answer transcript was published in the February 1955 issue of Mystic Magazine.  The article featured the transcendental communicator known as 'Yada Di Shi'ite' answering questions submitted by magazine readers.  The transcript is presented without any deletions in this article.  Among the group in attendance at the session was Irene Probert, Mark's wife.  A book of Yada communication transcripts was published by Ralph G. Warren in 1979 and is entitled Yada Speaks.

Yada stated about himself during the previous session arranged for Mystic Magazine:
 

One of my physical expressions, the one in which I acquired the title, Yada Di Shi'ite goes back into the remote period of what you would call today 500,000 years ago.  I lived in a beautiful and vast civilization called Yu.  Yu means vast in my language.  I was a Ka-Ta in the beginning of my training in the temples in the city of Kaoti.  A Ka-Ta means a God-man or priest.


As I completed my 33rd degree in the order called Shi'ite, I was given the title of Yada.  Ya means spirit and da means life.  Therefore I am the spirit of life of the Shi'ite order.  I have been back and forth on the earth plane many, many, many times in that period of 500,000 years.   My last incarnation on the earth plane was 500 years ago in China.

 
Readers should not confuse 'Yada' with the contemporary 'channeled entity' 'Ramtha' who regularly speaks for interims through JZ Knight.  Ramtha has said he lived 35,000 years ago on the continent of Lemuria and became a conqueror during the pilgrimage into Atlantis.  Pivotal in the philosophy of 'The Ram' is that both he and every human being are "of the I Am, and that be the I Am of God the Father, as you term it, indeed!"  Yada is quoted in Yada Speaks: ". . . when I do not come out from myself, I am in a state of complete at-oneness with myself . . . I am simply aware that I am . . . The state of one-ness in which I dwell is an aspect of the Creator's nature."  (Here are links to two previous articles that one can use to compare the philosophies of Yada and Ramtha.)

Concerning the circumstances of the medium and the nature of some of Yada's comments not reflecting the needs of people living in 2018 (such as the predicament of 'the masses' in relation to spiritual evolution), the reader should consider some statements found in other transcripts of transcendental communication.  Two examples follow —

'Controlling spirit' 'Theodore Parker' spoke through trance medium Mrs. J. H. Conant on April 29, 1869 as published in an 1872 transcript anthology: "It should be understood that these seances are not controlled at all times by the same spirit, but for each occasion an intelligence is selected best adapted to that occasion . . . each distinct intelligence, or human spirit, retains its own special intellectual integrity after death as before.  All are entitled to their own opinions and the expression of the same . . . ."  (previous article)
 
A 'Direct Voice' tape recording of 'Dr. Cosmo Lang' (among those documenting the case of medium Leslie Flint) includes the statement: "You see, you have to remember above all else probably that the Voice of the Spirit—although it is in a sense not limited—to some extent can only be utilized and given out according to the situation and the moment and the time when it takes place."  (previous article)
 

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RNA: This recording is being made August 23, 1954 at the home of Mark Probert, and will answer questions submitted to Ray Palmer by readers of Mystic Magazine.  The medium is Mark Probert.

YADA: Sina, Sina-ha, I am the Yada Di Shi'ite.

GROUP: Good evening Yada.

YADA: I am going to leave my language out, and begin by speaking English.  I am very honored to be here in this house.

IP: It is a pleasure to have you here, Yada.

YADA: (Speaking to two guests)  It appears there is much happiness in your home now.

RNA: Yes, there truly is.  It is happiness through experience, Yada.

YADA: That is the only way that man can possibly learn.  It is what you Americans call learning the hard way, but I know of no better way.

RNA: That certainly is the truth.

YADA: It is by practical experience and then we know; there can be no doubt.  There is too much talk of so-called teachers and helpers both from your side of the veil and my side trying to talk people into living.  You cannot do this.  Living is a personal thing and the proper balance in it can only be had by individual personal experience.  Now I will not talk too much because I know the time is limited and this chigga (recorder) is limited also.

RNA: The first question is sent in by Dr. Marcus Fite of Kellogg, Idaho.

QUESTION: The average person is in the physical for 75 years, then passes and is in the spirit for hundreds of years.  Why is this so, before he reembodies?  If he is here to learn lessons, why is he here in the physical less time than in the spiritual?

YADA: Sir, there are several answers to that question, but I will start by saying, how does this man know that one is in the spirit life for hundreds of years?  Truly it is not necessarily so at all.  The length of time one stays in the astral world depends upon the experiences he is having there and the necessity within himself for gathering such experiences.  If he learns what he needs to learn, in, let us say, ten years, five years, he can return to the physical world should the necessity for his doing so in that period of time cause him to.  Life is an individual thing.  This one may return at any time that he finds within himself the need for another physical life experience.

RNA: Yada, wouldn't you say that living is not a matter of chronological time but is a matter of experience.

YADA: Exactly so, sir, for that one is not living in the astral plane any more than the one in the physical body is living in something separate from the astral plane.  Most of us do not know that the human being does 80% to 90% of his living in the mind.  You may call the mind the astral planes.  The mind is not an action locked up in the skull.  The mind is everywhere present and everywhere does mean apart from the physical structure.  We are having experiences outside of the physical body this does not mean we are projecting, it simply means we have an extension of our sense of awareness.  Not realizing consciously what is going on, we feel that we are locked up in the body and must wait until we die before we can have an extension of consciousness carrying us into a state called the astral planes.  The physical body is merely a recording machine so that one can use the experiences he has outside if his physical self for his physical benefit.  I think you understand what I mean.

RNA: Yes, I understand very well.

YADA: This is one of the great mistakes that not only the layman is subject to make, but the so-called experienced occultists and metaphysicians do not entirely understand this.  Death does not free one, one bit; not one bit more than their mental self knows how to be free.  The extension of time, or the sense of time is no greater by a measurable quantity in the period of separation from the physical structure than it is in the physical structure here.  There are a great many things to say concerning this particular question.  It cannot be properly dealt with in a few short words.  For the time being this will be the answer.

RNA: The next questions were sent in by Mr. John G. Beasley, Jr., of Crockett, Texas.

QUESTION:

1. At what period chronologically will world-wide acceptance be given to the true facts pertaining to reincarnation, karma, etc., and what will be the effect of such knowledge on society as we know it today?

2. In the process of reincarnation is the return to this life made for the purpose of performing certain specific acts thereby accomplishing a part of a "master plan" (such as Judas, Nero, Napoleon, Hitler, et al) or is it solely for the purpose of learning?

YADA: Always there is this chronological time to be dealt with.  Sir, never!  The people en masse do not learn or do not accept anything.  To accept something, the actual meaning is to live by, to use it, is it not?  This is the true acceptance.  Merely to accept something intellectually and then forget it is not acceptance at all.  The acceptance of anything is using it.  The masses will never be taught it because as a whole there are very few people on your earth that understand so that they can teach it; that understand it sufficiently.  Even though there may be a sufficient number of people to understand it, the people that they would try to teach it to would not understand it.  It is something that is a slow process and can only be taught individually, to individual persons.  It is like trying to teach a certain form of mathematics to everybody at one time; it cannot be done.  There are certain minds that are not capable of handling certain levels of mathematics, is it not so?

RNA: Very true.

YADA: And so it is with this subject.  This man feels there is perhaps a possibility of awakening the masses.  There is no such possibility, for life is not experienced by masses, it is experienced by the individual.  The obstructions that stand in the way of  such teachings lie in the many traditional teachings of every race of people on the earth.  Many of these traditional teachings completely bar the chances of these people from learning anything about reincarnation and karma.  I do not look for it, sir.

It may appear that such people as Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and many more of that kind are parts of a master plan.  It may also appear that the great avatars who came to help awaken certain individuals that were already on the border of awakening, or were coming more into the light or understanding were also part of a master plan.  The master plan does not lie with the masses, it lies in the individual.  As the individual himself solves his own riddle, which is the riddle of the universe, the master plan is fulfilled, is accomplished, is completed, for this one at last has found consciously his own divinity of freedom from the illusionary state of consciousness.  He comes into the realization that he is the plan and the planner.  I do not for a moment suppose that many minds will see this, and it is well for the time that they do not.  That is all I have to say there.

RNA: The following questions were sent in by Mrs. Oleta Wright of Auburn, California.

QUESTIONS: 1. It has long been my belief that cremation frees the spirit from the earthly body and allows it to go to the right sphere and prevents the spirit from being earth bound.  Is this true?

2. When a part of the brain is destroyed, here on earth, does that condition effect the brain of the spirit?

3. I have suffered much for eight years because a beloved brother who passes from this life was buried in a Rock of Ages vault instead of being cremated, or at least so his body could return to dust.  Is there any chance this his soul is free?

YADA: How we cause ourselves to suffer through not knowing.  Cremation, in the ancient teachings of some of the Indian people, was believed to bring more complete freedom to the discarnate being; that not having a body around to be attracted by, it would depart from the earth more quickly.  In a way yes, and in a way no, for what is needed is for the individual to learn while he is still in the physical body, to become detached to all that goes on around him including his own physical desires.  He must take them into control so that they do not control him.  Even though you cremate the body, if that one has been living a lustful life on the earth, cremating his body is not going to stop him from his desires.  I think you can see that, huh?  It does, however, have a helpful way of keeping that one away from his own physical body and trying to get back possession of it.  This then being of no more attraction to him sets him free but does not relieve his desires or does not release him from his desires.  To obtain release he must do so by his own efforts by seeing what those uncontrolled desires lead him to.  And what do they lead him to?  Repeating them, repeat, repeat, repeat, and repeats.  You are caught like the fly in the spider's web.  You cannot get away because your consciousness is where you are, or you are where your consciousness is.

RNA: Very true.

YADA: One will not necessarily find escape due to cremation.  Now as far as insanity goes and one in the physical world passing out while they are mentally unbalanced, this does not mean that they will stay mentally unbalanced.  There are helpers in the astral world, conscious helpers.  It is their work to go to individuals that have suffered physical insanity and help to bring them into balance again.  Because after all, what is insanity?  The physical brain being a mechanical receiving set has become in some manner injured so that the mind flow, like electricity, cannot function in it properly.  The mind self is not insane but it gathers experiences by habitually doing certain things and so we are likely to carry the habit pattern of our unbalanced acts into the astral world.  But there is someone there to help that one if they will be willing to be helped.  Nevertheless they are not suffering, they are having an experience that in due course will bring them back into balance, that is all.  We are too emotionally attached to what we see going on in the surface world, therefore we fall into all manner of false beliefs.  And false as these beliefs are, if we accept them, they become true to us and we suffer by them.  We can also have pleasure by them depending solely on our attitude to whatever it is that is happening.  This lady need not worry about her brother.  He is all right.  He will find his proper level.  She must be more concerned about her own self, her own actions.  This will give not only herself freedom from her brother but it will give her brother freedom from her.  Her emotional outpouring about her brother is holding him from waking up to the greater reality.  She can give him freedom by herself becoming more aware of her own needs.  My friends, could we but grasp it properly, we would see that all things stand safe in the Light, the Light of Wisdom, the Light of Understanding, the Light of Love, for the Light of Love is the Light of Understanding.  I think I need say no more there.

RNA: The next question is submitted by Mr. Leslie M. Faith of Paducah, Kentucky.

QUESTION: Is there now existing upon the Inner planes some kind of recognized Spiritual Authority in the form of an established Hierarchy of Being, or is every individual a freelance adventurer pursuing a way of Life, independent and unorganized?

YADA: Now if this man is talking about unorganized in groups of individuals of course they have such organizations or forms of organizing in all states of mentation from the lowest to the highest.  But life is principally an individual experience and when we come consciously to know, it is [the] most profound form of organization to be experienced; the organization of the self.  There are of course many forms of what is called Hierarchy on your earth and all the way through the planes from the lowest kind of organized groups that have been joined together to express the low self and the low desires to the greatest forms of organized consciousnesses that are Guardians of the world of matter as well as the world of what is roughly called spirit.  All life, the matter world of course included, is in precise geometrical balance, geometrical pattern.  The appearance of breakup or chaos in this great delicate balance is merely an assumption of the mind of an individual.  He himself is out of balance and that is the unbalance that he sees going on around him.

Let us look please, huh?  I look upon your world and from the material way of thinking I feel little else but violence and chaos of the worst kind.  It becomes difficult for me to see any balanced pattern to it at all.  I think to myself, what an insane creator it must have been to start all of that.  Hopeless, perfectly hopeless, if I don't know any better, if I look at it solely from the material aspect.  But I look at it from another side, I look at it from a fuller consciousness and I see it as acts, or action that is necessary in that time and in that place; in those places and in those times.  It is through those very acts of seeming chaos and violence that the people involved in that time and place will learn what it is necessary for them to learn.  They cannot learn any other way.  Could they, they wouldn't have taken that way, and so I see the balance, I see the fitness of it, and I am no more troubled.

RNE: Yada, do you see the now of it?

YADA: The now of it, the timelessness of it.

RNE: The picture that has been presented to me is one of frequency, like layer upon layer of frequency, experience upon experience, reliving certain experiences over and over again, not in a sense of time but in a sense of experience and nowness?

YADA: That is all, lady, and that is correct.  That is the whole picture.

RNE: If one so desired, if one had the ability, you could see the panoramic picture of any now?

YADA: That is right.

RNE: From this you could derive the experience necessary if you were so aware so that it would not be necessary to relive it?

YADA: That is right, but I am not at all of the belief or the feeling that the mass mind is going to grasp what you are saying or what I am saying.  That which we say will reach only those that are capable of seeing; that is all.  We are not saviors of the world.  We do not feel we have a mission unless that mission is my own.

RNE: It is the expression of you?

YADA: That is right.  No more than this; to save myself.

RNE: You must express love?

YADA: That is all, that is all.  This means complete elimination of criticism of passing judgments, to simply observe, observe, observe.  See it as one's self.  Watch the passing show; the great panorama.  This will be a proof and sufficient proof of where you stand.

RNE: Such a definite feeling of the need to express love is shown within you?  This is the reason for you being here now?  This is an active expression?  This isn't a sitting away on a hilltop?

YADA: Oh no, when I say to sit by the side and watch the panorama and watch the show, the word sit to me means action.

RNA: By no means can you be passive.

YADA: Passiveness means death, means obliteration, means nothing, means blank.  Become compassionately engaged in the show.

RNE: And love it.

YADA: You cannot become compassionately engaged in it unless you do love it.  If you do not than you are lost in the illusion of it and you suffer the consequences.  You must always love what you are doing or it will poison you.

RNE: If you do not love what you are doing, you do not love yourself.

YADA: That is right.

RNA: Yada, the next question is from Mrs. Mildred Faith.

QUESTION: Is there any truth in the claims of some Occultists of a transfer of souls taking place from one field to another via Space Craft?  If so is there any signs of hostility among those Space Visitors?

YADA: The Space People are not at all connected with what is normally called the world of the dead.  The so-called soul or spirit needs no vehicle of a mechanical kind to move it about.  The space people are separate cultures of their own.  Many occult teachers who are not really occult teachers but have a smattering of metaphysics, metaphysical knowledge, are likely to make such assumptions, but they are wrong.  Man consciously gravitates or moves here so-called and there so-called by his own willing.  Nobody in or out of the physical structure moves into a time frequency in which they do not belong.  Only a certain condition of the consciousness can carry us to where we want to go; we as individuals want to go.

RNA: And this is sparked by desire.

YADA: It is sparked by desire, the desire principally to fulfill one of the deepest human needs and necessities, and that is action, the need for action.  Nothing can be said about the nature of the action, what is done.  That is not it.  It is simply the need for action, for life is based, its most subtle substance, is action.  Should action cease, it would mean complete oblivion for that one.

RNA: This next question is submitted by Mr. Kenneth H. Muse of Detroit, Michigan.

QUESTION: What proof do we have that this "Inner Circle" is not composed of conscious or unconscious astral projections of living personalities?

YADA: In the first place, I do not know what this individual means by living personalities.  If he means flesh bodies, he suffers from a great misconception of life.  In order for any communication to be had, whether in or out of the physical structure, there must be consciousness.  Consciousness means living, is it not so?

RNA: Absolutely.

YADA: The extent of the consciousness lies in what is being thought, the nature of the communication.  There are many individuals in the body doing what is called talking with one another, making sounds, but they are dead.  By dead I mean that they do not know, they are ignorant.  Their awareness is only of their physical structure, of their physical desires, of the desire world alone.  To be alive means to be aware of your own being, of your own divine nature.  The individual that is asking for proof, it cannot be given to him by another, for my proof will not necessarily be his proof.  If he does not understand my picturing, my feelings for life, if he does not come into mental rapport with my thoughts, I can give him no proof.  All proof lies within the individual; the one that is seeking proof.

RNA: This next was submitted by Miss Lorraine Brugere of St. Louis, Missouri.

QUESTION: After death will we be united with the people we loved on earth, or will we lose our dear ones, or simply cease to care?

YADA: Most of our attachment for those we call our dear ones is an emotional attachment.  It is not an attachment of understanding, of knowing the nature of our own being and seeing it in another.  When we can do this then we shall not be concerned about our loved ones, whether they are in or out of the physical body.  We shall simply know they are about their Father's business.  The Father's business is action, action that is conscious of what it is doing.  The greater majority of people will of course meet those they have become attached to in the physical world.  They have a natural attachment to them.  This will hold them together, will draw them together again.  Now this can also happen by hatred.  If two people hate one another, the very act of hating is bringing these two into conscious rapport with one another, is it not?

RNE: Yes, it creates a state of mental rapport of a kind, that is true, because if that exists in your life, you are always aware of it.

YADA: This is right because why the hate?  The hate is because deep within them, unknown to both of these people, they are envious of what they think the other has and this envy, this feeling of wanting what the other has is going to draw them together.  They must come together again so they can come into better understanding.  They will share with one another what each think the other has.

RNA: Giving of one's self?

YADA: That is right.

RNE: Yada, is it possible to love a situation so clearly that you gain release from it and are blessed by the person who hates you?

YADA: That is right, certainly.  For we surely immortalize one another by hate as we do by love, for to hate somebody means that you are keeping them alive in your consciousness, is it not so?

RNE: That is true.  People will come together again in hate until they learn what they have to learn that exists between them.

RNA: Once they face the situation, they will find that their problem just melts away.

YADA: That is right.  There is nothing truly that is hateful there.  This is the physical expression.

RNA: Misunderstanding?

YADA: Misunderstanding.  Inwardly they know better.  Indeed very often, inwardly unknown to them, their hate is love in a disguised form.

RNA: So often it is a matter of pride?

YADA: That is right.  Now let us see this.  Here we have the snake that grows on the ground, a very venomous being.  This, most mankind fears.  Why does he fear the snake?  Because he does not understand the snake.  The snake does not understand him.  The snake only understand itself and the man only understands himself, but they do not understand one another.  Could this man see that the snake is a necessary part of material expression, the snake would know this and not seek to poison him or bite him.  But the snake senses this fear and because the snake, like all animals, lives in fear, it is a natural quality of the animal for self preservation, but fear is not a natural quality for the human being.  In India the true master not only learns to master himself but when he learns to master himself he learns to master all things.  Is it not so?  Because he understands all things, he sees all things belong in their place and time and so he does not seek to destroy it but tries to keep it in the physical body as long as it can be kept there.

RNA: Yada, what is the significance of the snake and the tree?

YADA: The snake is what is called the Kundalini or sex force or cosmic energy and the tree in the mystical teachings is the spinal column of the human being.  When the snake, the snake force, sometimes called the fire force, starts to climb the tree or the spine, when it reaches the throat chakras it is now tempting that individual; tempting, meaning to try to pull him back down into physical expression, into the world of desire.  If it does not succeed, if the individual rises consciously above it with compassion, then the snake goes to the heavenly state and the man has illumination.  What could have been death to him becomes life in its fullest meaning because he became the master instead of the snake.

RNA: Thank you, Yada.  This new question is another submitted by Miss Lorraine Brugere.

QUESTION: Is the Catholic religion the one true religion as it is claimed to be, and would Jesus be happy to have all people under one faith?

YADA: If I am to adhere to my own feelings and many of my thoughts of life in the path wherein, I have felt that life is an individual experience, then it must follow that religion is a form of action that is gone through, like everything else, by the individual.  It is an individual seeking to know yourself, to find yourself.  Whatever religious belief one has been raised in, as long as they feel content with it, at peace with it, it belongs to them and it is the only path for them.  Apart from this religion as an outer physical manifestation, it is certainly not the only religion of man, nor is it by any means the original religion.  Long before that which is called Catholicism came into being, thousands and thousands and thousands of years before, there was the teaching of one God, there was the teaching of the one Master; the one Master that came to save the world of man.  The man Jesus is completely dead, completely obliterated because that is what was destroyed upon the cross, the cross being the crucifixion of the physical self, the destruction of the physical self, the killing out of the physical desires, the lower self rising to become one with the higher or the Christ Mind, the eternal Christ Mind or the Mind of Wisdom and Light which is Love.

The masses are not interested in making anyone happy.  They are living in their desire bodies.  They cannot comprehend the Christ Mind, the Mind of Wisdom, so they give to the man Jesus, or the corpse, that which belongs to the Christ, love, adoration.  This is why your world is in such a turmoil.  Humankind has come to worship personality, not Love, not Wisdom, for they have lived so long in the low self, in the material self.  They know not of the light.  They are stone and steel worshipers, temple worshipers, not worshipers of the Light or Love.  Because of this, the Catholic religion like all religions are merely outer manifestations, material expressions belonging in the material world, knowing nothing about the Christ Mind, the eternal Light of which this great teacher said, "I Christ am the way and the Light," not I Jesus, I Christ am the way and the Light.  If the individual knows not the nature of happiness in self, how can he know anything about happiness for another?  The man who lives outside for the physical self alone is dead.  He is lying in the grave of ignorance.  But as he comes out into the light by his own suffering, he will know the Christ is resurrected.  Resurrection means becoming consciously aware of your own divine nature, that is all.

RNE: Yada, thank you for a beautiful explanation.

YADA: The beauty you may find in anything is the beauty that lies in yourself.  Do not be concerned when you see great turmoil taking place here.  You will become involved in it, embroiled in it.  If you walk into it with love, knowing that all is in balance, you can bring help, you can bring harmony.  But if you recognize it as being out of harmony, you cannot get it back in.

RNE: No, because you recognize the disharmony within yourself.

YADA: That is right.  That is all I have to say now.  I think I will leave.  Thank you and good-bye.

THE END

Milestone:  This is blog article #415 of Metaphysical Articles: Interesting Articles, Links and Other Media.  The article begins my tenth year of blogging.

—Mark Russell Bell

 

Ray Palmer's Flying Saucer and Metaphysical Questions Answered By 'The Inner Circle' Through Mark Probert 1954

A case of transcendental communication dazzling in scope is that of Mark Probert, who was the channel for 'The Inner Circle.'  Mark Probert (1907-1969) was affiliated with Meade Layne and his Borderland Sciences Research Association.  As there were no bestsellers about this case, he isn't as well known today as such 20th Century trance channelers as Edgar Cayce and Jane Roberts.  Expanding upon the 2012 blog articles about Mark Probert (including 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7), I've decided to present some further transcripts of 'The Inner Circle.'  Two culminations of the research are the books The Magic Bag (First Printing 1949) and The Coming of The Guardians: An Interpretation of the "Flying Saucers" as Given From the Other Side of Life (1953).  
 
Mark Probert has commented about his trance mediumship: "Some of the people who communicate through me are said to be very eloquent and learned, and I wish I could hear them for myself . . . The talk is mostly philosophical and scientific, and since I never had more than a sixth grade grammar school education, it is quite beyond my own normal knowledge and vocabulary."  An expert stenographer made transcripts of sessions during the early years of the work and then Mark was able to listen to the trance communication with audio tape recordings that were made.

In 1954 and 1955, a few issues of Mystic Magazine presented question and answer transcripts of Mark Probert trance sessions.  The first of these transcripts was published in the August 1954 issue and is presented without any deletions in this article.

left to right: portraits by Mark Probert of his 'Controls' Ramon Natalli, Yada Di Shi'ite and Professor Alfred Luntz of 'The Inner Circle' teachers of light (Mystic Magazine issue 5)

  

An introductory paragraph preceded the question and answer transcript.  Mark Probert was identified in the article as "the most amazing medium in America today" and his trance mediumship sessions were announced as the subject for a planned series of articles with an opportunity for readers to submit their own questions for Mark's "controls" to answer.  In this first transcript, a 'seance circle' participant identified by the initials 'RGM' is left unidentified.

As I've commented in other blog articles concerning legitimate 'channelers,' the perspective of entities speaking through a person should be understood as being 'more-knowing' rather than 'all-knowing.'  Each perspective of a 'channeled entity' reflects a unique chronology of experiences and may even to some extent be limited by the beliefs and spiritual perspectives of people interacting with the messages at the time the transcendental communication is given.  This is evident in the following transcript when one considers the aspects of UFOlogy expressed on this occasion by 'Professor Luntz' as such concerns as public readiness are no longer relevant at the current time.

Kevin Ryerson's 'John' is quoted in Spirit Communication: The Soul's Path (1989):
 

Spirit guides and teachers are not infallible in the information they give.  Advice from them should be taken as just that—advice or counseling from one who perhaps has a broader spectrum of life experience.


Individuals always have the ability of free will and can alter any predictions made for them.  We encourage you to scrutinize all information received from any channeled source to know that you make the final decisions in all of your life affairs. 

Meeting held Monday, 15 March, 1954 at 8:00 P.M.

Purpose: To answer questions sent in by Ray Palmer.  [Editor of Mystic Magazine]

MP: This is March 15, 1954.  This is Mark Probert speaking.  In a few moments I will go into trance, and questions asked by Ray Palmer in his letter of March 2nd will be presented to my teachers of the Inner Circle.

Prof. Luntz: How do you do, I am Professor Luntz.

Irene Probert: How are you this evening, Professor?

Prof. Luntz: Very well indeed, my dear, and how about you folks?

RGM: Oh, we're fine Professor.

Prof. Luntz: Now my friends, I am quite aware of what is desired of us this evening.  The idea is I believe to answer some questions that were sent to you by your friend, Ray Palmer.

IP: Yes, Professor, I believe I shall read the complete question first and then break it down as RGM has typed it out here so you can give more complete answers, don't you think so?

Prof. Luntz: I think that would be quite well, yes.  But before you start [I] would like to answer my question, the one concerning myself.

IP: That's fine, whatever you wish to do.  The question pertaining to you, Ray Palmer says, "Who are you, Dr. Luntz?  Will you give a specific introduction of yourself to our readers telling who you were, where you lived, what you did, and where you are now and what is your occupation at present?"

Prof. Luntz: Well, I do not believe that it is very important to make any statement concerning my own life on earth.  It would not further the work one little bit.  To say simply that I am Professor Alfred Luntz as I have been doing these years and letting it go at that.  I think it would be sufficient but I do not think Ray Palmer will believe so.  To say more about my life on earth I rather feel would incriminate me.  That is a famous statement today, is it not?

RGM: Very true.

Prof. Luntz: Yes, and even the spooks do not like to be incriminated.

IP: Perhaps by telling where you are and what your occupation is at present might give those who read the answer in Mystic an idea of what does really take place when you're on that side of the veil, so to speak.

Prof. Luntz: Well, I will say this much that in my earth life I was a clergyman for the High Episcopal Church of England.  I was born of German and English parents.  I had some of my earlier schooling at the Eton School for Boys, later going to Germany where I attended Heidelberg and then later back to England going to the theological seminary at Oxford.  More than that I can't say and I feel fairly certain this bit of information concerning my personal life will be of little value to either Ray Palmer or the readers, but that is the best that I can do.  Now concerning my life in the present state, I certainly do not follow the path of the clergyman or the clergyman's life.  I pursue truth, truth to be found in many many fields; philosophical, scientific, metaphysical, occult.  There are many schools over here providing a vast number of things to study.  The life is pretty much the same as on earth.  Coming into the astral world you do find yourself floating aimlessly through space with nothing to do.  It is an active life and can be a very happy one.  But by the same token, depending upon your desire to adjust yourself to the new conditions one can find it beautiful or otherwise.

RGM: May I ask you a question, Professor?

Prof. Luntz: Please do.

RGM: In reference to the studying that you said you were conducting on the other side, you said it was somewhat similar to earth life.  Do you have books as such?

Prof. Luntz: Yes sir, as such.

RGM: Maybe I should have left the "as such" off.

Prof. Luntz: Well no, I think you are quite right in expressing yourself in that way, quite right indeed, because many individuals would believe, had I simply said, "Yes we have books," or had you simply stated "Do you have books," that would not have been sufficient, because many would have taken an imaginative turn believing that one  simply imagined they have books.  Well it is not any more imaginative than are the books in your world.  There are libraries, great vast libraries, great schools, great music halls with instruments to play.  This I know must be difficult to comprehend.  I was going to say believe, but it is not a matter of believing.  One must comprehend and understand before one can believe or disbelieve anything, eh what?

RGM: That's right.

Prof. Luntz: Yes, it is a real, concrete world if one can speak about concreteness anywhere under any circumstances.

RGM: Do you find that the process of learning is easier in your world than it was when you lived in a physical body?

Prof. Luntz: Yes, I do sir, because my mind now is clear.  I am not caught up in the fears, so-called unconscious or conscious, that keep one from having freedom of mind.  Here on the earth plane where you are, you have those conditions to deal with; the unconscious fear seeping into the so-called conscious self where the individual is not even aware of what is happening.  Remembrances of many lifetimes and the fears gathered there besides those we develop right in this, your present lifetime.  In my world, especially if one has had the kind of training I was given; fortunate indeed was I to have it after coming over here.  It certainly completely obliterated all the feelings of guilt I acquired when passing into the astral world, guilt concerning the things I had taught about God and the heavenly state and hell, only to find no such states existed.  Yes, I was fortunate to get the education that I did.  It brought me completely up and out of the terrible fears and feelings of guilt.

IP: This education that you're speaking of that helped you so much was the education that you acquired after passing into the astral, is that not true?

Prof. Luntz: That is what I said, my dear, yes, yes.

RGM: Perhaps Mr. Palmer would be interested in knowing a little bit of your work with the Inner Circle.

Prof. Luntz: Well sir, after I had received my initiation which was my education or rather my re-education into higher understanding, I was taken into what is called  the Inner Circle; the Inner Circle being a group of men and women, sixteen in all, that come from all walks of life, having vast experience in many fields.  I do indeed feel greatly honored to have been initiated into that group.  Of course, all of the members like myself have other and perhaps more mystical reasons for forming this circle and some of those reasons do not concern us alone but concern the boy through whom we speak and have to do with certain experiences he had in past lives in which we played a part; sometimes a small part and sometimes a large one.  A hint of it may be found in my saying, "No one of us ever commit  an act of any kind that we do not receive the  reward for it or the penalty at sometime or another."  I can't say more about that at the present time.

IP: Would you like to have me present these questions now to you, Professor?

Prof. Luntz: Well, my dear, you may start wherever you see fit and I will do what I can about it and that which I can't answer I will simply depart and leave another to answer.

IP: Well, the first question, I will read all of the first question and then break it up.  Is our government or other governments engaged in any definite effort to discredit or throw a smokescreen over the flying saucers, or do they know more than they admit and are they making constructive efforts to either resolve the puzzle or turn it to good effect?  Now the first is, is our government or other governments engaged in a definite effort to discredit or throw a smokescreen over the flying saucers?

Prof. Luntz: No, they are not making an effort to discredit them, they are simply trying to shield the general public from knowing the truth concerning them, for they know what the people as masses are like.  They have no desire to panic their people, which, to bring out the complete and whole truth suddenly, would surely do.

IP The next question.  Do government or military officials know more than they admit regarding flying saucers?

Prof. Luntz: Indeed they do.

IP: Are constructive efforts being made either to resolve the puzzle or turn it to good effect?

Prof. Luntz: Of course they are endeavoring to find a way of explaining these things in a manner that will come as a shock to the people, and they certainly will in time use the knowledge they have gained concerning these discs or saucers for new and highly advanced methods in aeronautics.  And that is not the least of it.  They've learned considerable more concerning the atomic world, the world of matter, chemistry, biology, heat, and many other things that are branches of those that I have mentioned.

IP: The second question is: Do you know anything about the most recent discoveries of scientists regarding the upper atmosphere and is anything being kept secret regarding it outside of a military nature?  Is it true that our atmosphere, using the term loosely, extends at least 75,000 miles outward and that it contains within it hitherto unsuspected bodies, such as orbital clusters or of meteorites, dust and so forth?  Now the question is: What are the most recent discoveries of scientists regarding the upper atmosphere?

Prof. Luntz: I am pondering the wiseness of answering that question, because it does have some military nature to it and I do not know whether I had better answer it.

IP: He asks, is there anything of a non military nature being kept secret by scientists who have made new discoveries about our upper atmosphere.

Prof. Luntz: Anything concerning the upper atmosphere at this present time does in one way or another belong to the military.  Would you object to that, sir?  Would you have something to say regarding it, Mr. M.?

RGM: Well, I am quite sure that anything concerning the upper atmosphere has a military significance at the present time.  Perhaps you are quite right in withholding comment on that question at the present time because the information that has been acquired by scientists is classified and it perhaps would be unwise to release information of that nature.

Prof. Luntz: Thank you sir, that is precisely the way I feel about it.  I want to say something concerning the atmosphere.  I do not know, of course, where Ray Palmer may have gotten his facts concerning the atmosphere extending outward some 75,000 miles.  In my observations of it and in my studies of it I find it does not go farther than 80 miles and then it is so rarified, one can hardly call it atmosphere.

IP: That answers the latter part of the question.  The last is: are hitherto unsuspected bodies rotating in orbits around our earth?

Prof. Luntz: Yes, saucers.  They have been very unexpected.  They are still there.

IP: They always shall be, I suppose?

Prof. Luntz: Well, for quite some time.  They are there in what may be called other frequencies than we here, your scientific men have known about before.  They have been but recently detected with certain instruments.  The honorable Menzel, I believe that is his name, eh?

RGM: Yes, that is right.

Prof. Luntz: He knows they are there.

RGM: What was his purpose in writing the book the way he did?

Prof. Luntz: To hide that fact, thinking the authorities believing that for a man of his position to make such statements, they would act as final thoughts concerning the discs, and the people would forget about it, but people are human beings, not sheep; although they act like it so often.  Human beings are thinkers.

RGM: Was it Menzel's idea to write this book himself or was he put up to it by individuals in government or the military?

Prof. Luntz: That is right, it was suggested that he do so.  Carry on my dear.

IP: Question number four.  Do you know anything of a civilization whose cities are now buried under the sands of the desert at the south of the Grand Canyon and can you describe it and tell how it came to be buried, even how it may be found?

Prof. Luntz: I think that I would rather leave that to my colleague, Yada Di Shi'ite.

IP: I see.  Question number five.  What will be the probably effect on our weather of the hydrogen bomb tests now going on or soon to occur both in Russia and our own test areas?

Prof. Luntz: I think I shall leave that also either to Yada or to Ramon Natalli.

IP: Fine, then you have answered all the rest of the questions, Professor Luntz, and so perhaps we will wait until the other members come on.

Natalli: How do you do, I am Ramon Natalli.

IP: Good evening, nice to have you with us this evening, Ramon.

Natalli: Thank you, it is very nice to be again in your home.

IP: Yes, Ramon.  Of course I know you realize what we are doing here this evening, answering the questions that Ray Palmer has sent in.  Would you like to give a brief biography of your life?  Professor Luntz did and I think Ray Palmer would appreciate it if you would like to do so.  That's just up to you of course.  Don't hesitate to say no if you wish to say no.

Natalli: I think all I shall say is that I was born in Rome, Italy and I lived in the time of the great and most honorable Galilleo.

IP: Did you know him personally?

Natalli: Yes, this man suffered greatly at the hands of the Inquisition.

IP: Yes, we've heard of that.

Natalli: I, of course, had no interest in religion and he had but little.

IP: You were interested in astronomy at that time, were you not?

Natalli: Yes, and of course he was far advanced from me in that field, but greatly persecuted, made to suffer terrible degradations.  I was agnostic.  If there was a God, said I, there was a God and that's all there was to it, there was no need to argue, for whether He was or not there was nothing I could do about it.  If there was one then I certainly could not know Him, therefore I would still have no argument.  I belonged to the Royal house of Astronomy.  It is still to me the greatest field of science.  In studying the vastness of the outer regions of space and the untold billions and trillions of bodies therein, one need not think of a God.  That in itself is inspiring enough and it should have told me that if all of this can exist and continue to do so through endless millenniums of time, then why not I.  In the field of matter it is quite clear, even more so today, that matter cannot be destroyed, how is it possible for the very essence of  matter called life to be destroyed,  I did not at that time expect to survive the death of my physical body and therefore it was a pleasant surprise to discover I did.  In this discovery I immediately set about with the greatest of joy to continue my favorite work.  As we said some years ago, the great eye your men of science have made today —

IP: You are speaking of Palomar observatory?

Natalli: That is correct.  It would see only another fraction of the vast number of bodies in space.  You cannot now build a greater, a larger telescope.  It would offer you no better view.  Man must now endeavor to move his mind beyond the realm of the power of the telescope that is there in Palomar.  More than this, my most extensive studies have conclusively shown to me that all of these island universes, all of it is consciousness and no more than that.  When, or if consciousness ceases to exist, all therein called outer bodies, all motion will cease with it.  Some of your scientists have said in your present day that the only thing that does exist is motion, but motion is a thing of the senses in the same manner as is all connected or coming out of motion.  So I say when consciousness ceases to be, all that consciousness brought forth will cease to be.  The thought that your present day scientists have taken matter and pulled it to pieces believing that they have found a something called the adhesive substance or glue of the atom.  These they call mesons.  Next they are going to have to find what the nature is of the matter that holds the matter together.  When there is cosmic radiation the particles that reach to the earth and bury themselves deep, deep within the earth, upwards of a thousand feet, these particles are mostly mesons.  The greater part of substance that these mesons come from are absorbed in the earth's atmosphere.  Most of them at the high level of what is called the ionosphere.  Yes, you want to say something?

IP: Yes I do, Ramon.  What would you have to say in regards to scientists explaining what an atom is, that is 10 percent something and 90 percent nothing?

Natalli: All I can say about the atom is that it is—this is going to sound strange perhaps—photons moving in a continuous yet periodical or quantum arc.  In other words, light waves moving in frequencies of various durations.  Does this make sense to you, sir?

RGM: When you say light waves moving in frequencies of various duration, that's not completely clear to me.  Maybe you could phrase it a little differently.

Natalli: Frequencies is concerned with duration.

RGM: We think of so many oscillations per second as being frequency.

Natalli: Yes.

RGM: And duration has the connotation of time.

Natalli: That is what I mean, moving in so many vibrations in time.  To name the time would be impossible, it would have to be worked out mathematically.  Is that better?

RGM: Yes, I think that is a little more clear.

Natalli: To speak about the atom is all right as long as you do not believe you are saying anything of lasting meaning, m-m-m-m.

IP: My question, Ramon.  I wanted you to express yourself pertaining to the idea of 90 percent nothingness.  Is there such a possibility of something working in nothing?

Natalli: This is something again, 90 percent nothing.  One cannot speak of 90 percent nothing.  One may speak of 90 percent something or 10 percent something but not 90 percent nothing or 10 percent nothing.

IP: That is what I think too.

Natalli: That is like trying to make something more out of one zero by putting three or four or a thousand more zeros with it.

IP: Yes.

Natalli:  This is having nothing and adding nothing to it.  But the part that is supposedly 10 percent something, these are not solids as man has come to think of the word solid.  Scientists speak of a substance moving through space, vast fields of it, of great density, yet they will say some of this substance is gaseous and others in more or less solid state.  There is no such state as a solid state.  There are degrees of what may be called solidification but yet one cannot say that.  There is more vibrations moving or vibrating in a given number of frequencies or oscillations per second, or split second that creates a measurable surface to man, to the senses, or to the instruments man creates.  What would you think of that, sir?

RGM: I think that is a very good explanation.

Natalli: Thank you.  Now as for what the scientists have discovered in the outer realms of space, there is yet more than the saucers.

IP: Now that you are referring to the question number two that Professor Luntz answered in part?

Natalli: Yes.

IP: I guess you picked up my thought there.  It was hoping you might elaborate upon it.

Natalli: Moving from outer space towards the earth is some of this substance that is of such great density.  It is substance that may be called the debris of bodies being broken down in interstellar space.  The island universes are constantly breaking down and building up.  Matter, while it is dissipating vast quantities of itself into space, is also automatically building up.  Therefore the universe shall never be destroyed, or run down, or run out of energy, or run down to what is called zero inertia.

RGM: Is this a process of consciousness that causes this to take place?

Natalli: Yes it is, but when I make this statement your men of science will say that is purely a metaphysical statement and we cannot comment on it or pay any attention to it.  Your scientists today believe that somewhere in space matter is breaking down into a practical state of nothing-ness, and that in the course of time the universes will be loosely scattered, low grade energy.  There shall be no such time for such a happening, for this world of matter, and when I say this world I mean this state of matter in vibration came out of deeper realms or dimensions of what may for convenience sake be called calm.  And so it cannot be destroyed, it cannot evaporate into nothingness, it cannot move back into the field it once existed in or dimension of time, or field of motion.  It must stay in the position it was projected in unless another body is capable of stopping the motion that set it into being, or stopping the force that produced it out of these other time frames.

IP: That would mean to break up the vortex that it was formed in, wouldn't it.  Ramon, what would you say about the sun ever burning itself out?

Natalli: Of course not, the sun may at some time, which I may add it is working towards now and has been for quite a great period of time, towards becoming a super nova.  The sun you have in your present solar system is a very small sun.  It would be considered a dwarf star among other suns in space.

IP: Yes, I believe once you told us that there are suns that could hold millions of our suns and shake them around like beans in a rattle box.

Natalli: Yes, that is the truth.

RGM: When you speak about our sun becoming a super nova that will take place some great time in the future, will it not?

Natalli: Oh, it is a vast time in the future, but suns are very unpredictable.  The vast time from now may be only the next moment.  The substances in the sun are of a very unstable nature.

IP: The suns are not what we call solidified material, they're gaseous, is that not true?  I think you have told us about that.

Natalli: They are gaseous, yes, but gasses that are pressed into tremendous densities.

IP: Do you want to elaborate upon this; is it true that our atmosphere, using the term loosely, extends outward 75,000 miles?

Natalli: This question was sufficiently answered by my honorable colleague, Professor Alfred Luntz.

IP: Out to 80 miles?

Natalli: Yes.

IP: I will go into the next question then.  This is question number four.  Do you know anything of a civilization whose cities are now buried under the sands of the desert at the south of the Grand Canyon and can you describe it and tell how it came to be buried, even how it may be found?

Natalli: I will leave that to my colleage, Yada Di Shi'ite.

IP: All right.  Would you like to answer question five.  What will be the probable effect on our weather of the hydrogen bomb tests now going on or soon to occur both in Russia and in our own test areas?

Natalli: Russia has already exploded the hydrogen bomb in the wastes of Siberia, in fact she has exploded more than the one.  England exploded the hydrogen bomb in the wasteland of Australia.  The effects of this is going to be world wide causing great changes in weather of a violent nature, producing mostly very violent and sudden wind storms of tremendous velocity.  Besides the wind storms of a cyclonic nature, there will be a great precipitation of rain, water, meaning you will have many great rainstorms.

IP: Are these to happen all over the earth?

Natalli: No, but will, especially at the places where they were let loose, exploded.  It will cover a great part of this side of the earth, meaning here in your country, in England, in Russia, some in India but not very much.  Of course India has many violent rainstorms in the monsoon season.

IP: Do you think that the explosions that have taken place recently have had anything to do with the tornadoes in the middle west.

Natalli: These are only the forerunner of what is to be if the combination of these hydrogen  bombs goes on.

RGM: At one time in the writings of another individual it was stated that some of the atomic explosions on the earth had affected other planets in the solar system.  Did that actually take place and can it happen in the future?

Natalli: No, it is not affecting other planetary bodies in space.  Indeed the atom bomb is only letting loose one tenth of one percent of the total energy in U235.  That is a very small amount. huh?

RGM: Yes, that is true.

Natalli: Think, my friends, what would happen should all of it be let loose.

RGM: It would be a thousand times as great.

Natalli: That is right.  Then you could say certain other bodies in space would be affected.  It would affect in this way.  It would cause the positive and negative poles, what you call the magnetic poles, to be disrupted to such an extent as to cause the earth to fall out of balance, or what you call tip.  Do you want to say something?

RGM: I was just wondering, considering the increased energy that can be released in the hydrogen device compared to the heavy matter type of device isn't it possible that they might go too far in this direction and upset the balance of nature?

Natalli: It is always very likely because your men of science that are experimenting in the field of hydrogen explosions are not at all certain on the outcome.  They were not certain of the outcome of the experimental explosion of the atom bomb.

IP: What really happens to the atom in an atomic explosion.  Does it really explode or is that a sensible question?

Natalli: In a way it is, and in a way it is not.  The atom acts very much in its explosion like a dwarf star becoming a super star.  It is simply matter seeking to extend its field of operation thereby needing a greater volume of space than it had before.

IP: Does it expand and then contract, or does it just keep on expanding?

Natalli: It dissipates itself and is later absorbed by other particles in the atmosphere.  Would you, sir, have anything to say about that?

RGM: That seems to be the logical way the energy would to be dissipated because explosions so far have taken place in the atmosphere and that's where the energy would have to be dissipated.

Natelli: Yes.

RGM: I've been wondering whether or not officials of the military and governments of various countries have been warned specifically about the dangers of carrying on those hydrogen experiments?

Natalli: They know very well about it, but they feel they have the situation in hand.  If I were a religious man, I would add, "Let us pray."  Not that I am fearful for I am in no dangerous position myself, but I can see the possibilities of widespread destruction on the earth and complete annihilation of your entire civilization followed by 5,000 years of darkness, or savagery and ignorance.  Also great and unexpected mutations could take place in all kinds of plant life and animal life and insect life, and cause other unpleasant conditions.

Yada: Sina, sina-ha (ladies and gentlemen) I am the Yada Di Shi'ite.

Group: Good evening, Yada.

Yada: (Speaks at first in his own language of Yu, an ancient civilization which existed in the Himalaya mountains 500,000 years ago.)  We could sit here all evening and if I talk in my language we get no place.  I am most honored to come into your home again and to see that both of you are in good health.

RGM: Thank you, Yada, it is a pleasure to have you here again.

Yada: I would talk please on the question you were asking in this letter.

IP: Ray Palmer asks will you give something of your life?  Will you give a specific introduction of yourself to our readers telling who you were, where you lived, what you did, and where you are now, and your occupation at present?  Do you wish to do that Yada?

Yada: I will do so to the best of my ability.  One of my physical expressions, the one in which I acquired the title, Yada Di Shi'ite goes back into the remote period of what you would call today 500,000 years ago.  I lived in a beautiful and vast civilization called Yu.  Yu means vast in my language.  I was a Ka-Ta in the beginning of my training in the temples in the city of Kaoti.  A Ka-Ta means a God-man or priest.

RGM: How do you spell Ka-Ta, Yada?

Yada: Ka-Ta, and it is a broken word; separate words.  Ka means God and Ta, man.  As I completed my 33rd degree in the order called Shi'ite, I was given the title of Yada.  Ya means spirit and da means life.  Therefore I am the spirit of life of the Shi'ite order.  I have been back and forth on the earth plane many, many, many times in that period of 500,000 years.  My last incarnation on the earth plane was 500 years ago in China.

My friends, I want to add something more please.  I have had continued consciousness with no breaks, though I have come into a physical body many times.  As I said, I have had no breaks in consciousness from my first experience in Yu.  Before that time I suffered like you do, many breaks, going in and out of the death state to the so-called physical life state.  I do not now have to return to the earth through the laws of birth, or biological laws.  I am saying this for no other reason than to let you know what you shall be doing in some period of time.  You also shall accomplish complete freedom from the physical world and have eternal consciousness.  This is what all mankind is striving for.  This is all he is striving for, for once he attains it he has attained his original estate; a Divine being.  Not from a religious sense, because in making such attainment religion as man understands it ceases entirely to be, because it belongs to the physical plane and the lower astral planes alone.  Religion, like all else that man does while he is suffering the illusion of the physical world, the world of matter, is just exactly that, illusionary.  Non-existent, a dream out of which he must rise.  And he rises, as I went through my experiences in the temples, by degrees, and all of man's experiences are to be classified as initiations into higher and to more complete states of awareness.  I cannot imagine anything greater to strive for than the finding of yourself.  Man has made many efforts to do this and is still doing it but the greater majority of ways and means and methods of so attaining are false paths and lead him to nothing.  He must find himself through work.  Work is experience.  There is no hurry to attain.  The greater the hurry, the greater our chances to fall and to fail.  All the various exercises, Yogi practices, secret mantrams, sittings in meditation, deep seated concentration, these are parts of his efforts to attainment of the finding of Himself, but no one of them leads one to the gate of freedom.  We cannot barter with the Light or with what man so unknowingly calls God.  All is work with sincerity and love for what we are doing and the experiences we are going through.  To be fearful of our continued existence or the possibilities of losing consciousness is to retard our efforts and our final freedom.  Let us move quietly with love in our hearts for all things and all efforts that we make, feeling that nothing is too hard or too difficult to go through.  It is very useful, this seeking in a scientific way, to gain knowledge about man and earth, but it is merely wasted time apart from the greater issue of the divine life.  Therefore in that respect we see all things that man does physically, he is playing with toys.  Marking time, not wasting it; you cannot waste time.  Let me turn for a moment to the question you have to ask of me please.

IP: This question is number four.  Do you know anything about a civilization whose cities are now buried under the sands of the desert at the south of the Grand Canyon and can you describe it and how it came to be buried, even how it may be found?  Can you tell us anything of a civilization whose cities are now buried under the sands of the desert south of the Grand Canyon?

Yada: I can tell you little about that one outside of the fact that it was a nomadic race of people belonging to the Aztec race.  They left what you call Mexico today; this was back in the time of the Inquisition against the great Montezuma.  These Indian people fled from their original home in South America and became nomads until they finally settled and created a kind of civilization in that region mentioned.

IP: Can you describe the cities as they used to be and how they came to be buried?

Yada: Great wind storms and dust storms obliterated the civilization.  To describe these is of no value that I can see.

IP: Is their architecture similar to that found down in the regions of the Aztecs?

Yada: Yes.

IP: How may these cities be found?  Excavation would be the answer to that, wouldn't it?

Yada: Yes it would.  There are many such cities scattered all over the Americas, the North and South Americas, buried beneath great tons and tons of the earth and some of these are obliterated by water.

IP: Is there anything else want to say about it, Yada?  That is the extent of the questions that weren't answered by the other members of the Inner Circle.

Yada: No, I do not think I will go further on it this evening.

 
This is the ending of the transcript published in Mystic Magazine issue five.  

Here are some of Ray Palmer's thoughts as expressed in the editorial for this issue of Mystic Magazine:
 

A long time ago we said we weren't in the business of publishing such magazine as FATE and MYSTIC to make money; but to say such a thing to the average person causes a snort of laughter.  Money is everything to them.  They can't conceive of anybody doing anything for the pleasure he gets out of it, and for the good it might do, and for a principle.


Our principle might be called freedom of thought, except that we know that the average man is incapable of much correct thought.  This is due not to lack of ability, but merely to lack of education — and by education we mean long-term experience.


Back of all this freedom to experience is the right to acquire the experiences of others undefiled by "processing."  When you read your newspaper, listen to your radio, watch your television, you are receiving "processed" news.


This mass of news is impossible to transmit in toto, so it is disseminated by "selection."


Darkness rules the world today, and light is denied the fuel to make it burn brighter and dispel some of the darkness.  Our principle then, is to add fuel to the light to make its rays visible to more people and to greater distances.
 
What is the light we want to raise to a higher "voltage" so that we can hold it aloft to peer into the darkness and penetrate the fog of "propaganda," "conditioning" and "hypnotism" that surrounds us?  Is it any religious fervor, any belief, any dogma, any great psychic secret, any power over evil, any holy revival?  No, it is nothing more that we want than (to put it crudely in the words of a very bad TV program) "the facts, mam; all we want are the facts."

 
Yada is quoted in Yada Speaks (1979) as having said during a trance session:
 

Now there are really no dead except those who are not awake.  Many people, masses of people, the whole human race go around with the eyes open and it appears that they are awake.  They're not!  They are aware only of their little outside dream and hoping it will be as they emotionally expect it to be.  They are not awake!  These are the living dead!  All of us must come up out of that state.  By degrees we come out of our dream into a greater state of reality.  Those that leave the physical structure in what is called death, enter a plane called the astral.  The majority enter only what is called the low-level astral plane.  Are these planes stacked up out there like chips?  No!  They are merely states of awareness of this or that human being which he has taken with him as gathered on this earth plane.  Right here in this room, my friends, there are various astral levels.  

 family watching television in 1954

contemporary family watching television

 
See also: "Some UFOlogists Are at an Impasse"